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	<title>Comments on: Wasteful spending, poor planning and extreme socialism.</title>
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	<description>Views about the Australian stock market, shares, the economy, investing, politics and world events.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:03:34 +0900</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: The tax review, health reform and Rudd fatigue &#124; Shareswatch Australia Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-3952</link>
		<dc:creator>The tax review, health reform and Rudd fatigue &#124; Shareswatch Australia Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 May 2010 01:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-3952</guid>
		<description>[...] (From: Wasteful spending, poor planning and extreme socialism) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (From: Wasteful spending, poor planning and extreme socialism) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Senator13</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-2979</link>
		<dc:creator>Senator13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 07:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-2979</guid>
		<description>I wonder if there will be a generation of school children that grow up resenting Kevin Rudd and his Building the Education Revolution school hall projects because they interrupted their recess and lunch breaks for months and months on end and by the time they are finished they will get no use from them as they will have left the school...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if there will be a generation of school children that grow up resenting Kevin Rudd and his Building the Education Revolution school hall projects because they interrupted their recess and lunch breaks for months and months on end and by the time they are finished they will get no use from them as they will have left the school&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Vince L</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-2977</link>
		<dc:creator>Vince L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-2977</guid>
		<description>Yep, the pink batts is just the tip of the iceberg. How many useless schools halls have been built? Can anyone tell us what we actually got for all the money the government spent? How much was wasted on consultants, admin, advisors etc?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, the pink batts is just the tip of the iceberg. How many useless schools halls have been built? Can anyone tell us what we actually got for all the money the government spent? How much was wasted on consultants, admin, advisors etc?</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Atkinson</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-2910</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Atkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-2910</guid>
		<description>Senator I think the pink batts fiasco has finally woken some people up to the fact that the Government is hooked on big spending and is unable to manage what it is spending.

This editorial in The Australian today is perhaps reflective of the mood starting to take hold across the nation: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/time-to-draw-a-big-line-under-big-canberra/story-e6frg71x-1225832347280</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Senator I think the pink batts fiasco has finally woken some people up to the fact that the Government is hooked on big spending and is unable to manage what it is spending.</p>
<p>This editorial in The Australian today is perhaps reflective of the mood starting to take hold across the nation: <a href="http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/time-to-draw-a-big-line-under-big-canberra/story-e6frg71x-1225832347280" rel="nofollow">http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/time-to-draw-a-big-line-under-big-canberra/story-e6frg71x-1225832347280</a></p>
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		<title>By: Senator13</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-1561</link>
		<dc:creator>Senator13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-1561</guid>
		<description>This is an interesting little article:

http://www.skynews.com.au/business/article.aspx?id=374838

I note that Labor Senator Doug Cameron is quoted as saying you should never let an academic economist run the economy and that the IMF, the OECD the ILO and Treasury all agree with the method of stimulus.  Who does Cameron think are at these organisations?  They are packed with academics! 

And if he claims that not a cent of this stimulus has been wasted then he is living in dream world. 

I would like at least one member of the Government to at least come out and say that there have been some bits that they have got wrong, some parts they have mismanaged and overspent and other areas that are totally unnecessary and they won’t be pushing ahead with them because it would be wasteful and pointless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an interesting little article:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.skynews.com.au/business/article.aspx?id=374838" rel="nofollow">http://www.skynews.com.au/business/article.aspx?id=374838</a></p>
<p>I note that Labor Senator Doug Cameron is quoted as saying you should never let an academic economist run the economy and that the IMF, the OECD the ILO and Treasury all agree with the method of stimulus.  Who does Cameron think are at these organisations?  They are packed with academics! </p>
<p>And if he claims that not a cent of this stimulus has been wasted then he is living in dream world. </p>
<p>I would like at least one member of the Government to at least come out and say that there have been some bits that they have got wrong, some parts they have mismanaged and overspent and other areas that are totally unnecessary and they won’t be pushing ahead with them because it would be wasteful and pointless.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Atkinson</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-1314</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Atkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:08:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-1314</guid>
		<description>Ned S - The BDI is a bit of a worry as the current decline may indicate the demand for hard commodities into China is dropping off a little. This along with the price cuts would be a major hit for Australian exports earnings. Although the RBA is optimistic about the outlook for the Australian economy I am not..at some point the lower prices for iron ore will meet with falling demand and that may send Australia back into a period of GDP contraction.

As for investing in shares, well Ned it is bit like Australia playing cricket in England. The Australian team know the pitches will be made to suit the English, the crowd will be hostile, the weather unpredictable and the umpires could do anything. But the team get out there, try and play the best they can, overcome the hurdles and come out a winner.

Hopefully I can overcome the many stock market investment hurdles and sometimes come out a winner also :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ned S &#8211; The BDI is a bit of a worry as the current decline may indicate the demand for hard commodities into China is dropping off a little. This along with the price cuts would be a major hit for Australian exports earnings. Although the RBA is optimistic about the outlook for the Australian economy I am not..at some point the lower prices for iron ore will meet with falling demand and that may send Australia back into a period of GDP contraction.</p>
<p>As for investing in shares, well Ned it is bit like Australia playing cricket in England. The Australian team know the pitches will be made to suit the English, the crowd will be hostile, the weather unpredictable and the umpires could do anything. But the team get out there, try and play the best they can, overcome the hurdles and come out a winner.</p>
<p>Hopefully I can overcome the many stock market investment hurdles and sometimes come out a winner also <img src='http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ned S</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-1313</link>
		<dc:creator>Ned S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 00:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-1313</guid>
		<description>True enough Greg - If the Baltic Dry keeps heading down for another couple of months a few punters just could start to suspect the rally is a bit ahead of itself too I guess. Although Asia is probably the bit of the world one wants to be in for the next 30 years regardless. Got me tricked how you feel comfortable investing in shares. Seems to me the whole game is rigged by and/or for the big players. Oz residential RE is rigged too of course. But at least it isn&#039;t rigged by the players themselves. And to date at least, all players have been pretty much affected equally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True enough Greg &#8211; If the Baltic Dry keeps heading down for another couple of months a few punters just could start to suspect the rally is a bit ahead of itself too I guess. Although Asia is probably the bit of the world one wants to be in for the next 30 years regardless. Got me tricked how you feel comfortable investing in shares. Seems to me the whole game is rigged by and/or for the big players. Oz residential RE is rigged too of course. But at least it isn&#8217;t rigged by the players themselves. And to date at least, all players have been pretty much affected equally.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Atkinson</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-1310</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Atkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-1310</guid>
		<description>Ned S - what I find curious is that the RBA and Treasury are upbeat about the Australian economy and yet we have seen the miners (RIO, BHP) report lower profits and say the outlook is unclear, Qantas has had a shocking time and says it will remain tough and we are likely to see less students from China &amp; India for a while.

So our big export areas, mining, tourism and education are all down and yet the RBA and Treasury reckon the economy is bouncing back? Mmmm...does not quite add up to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ned S &#8211; what I find curious is that the RBA and Treasury are upbeat about the Australian economy and yet we have seen the miners (RIO, BHP) report lower profits and say the outlook is unclear, Qantas has had a shocking time and says it will remain tough and we are likely to see less students from China &#038; India for a while.</p>
<p>So our big export areas, mining, tourism and education are all down and yet the RBA and Treasury reckon the economy is bouncing back? Mmmm&#8230;does not quite add up to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Senator13</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-1305</link>
		<dc:creator>Senator13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-1305</guid>
		<description>Watch out for the upcoming tax grabs.  If ever there was a time that the government was going to up taxes and use the GFC as an excuse it would be now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Watch out for the upcoming tax grabs.  If ever there was a time that the government was going to up taxes and use the GFC as an excuse it would be now.</p>
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		<title>By: Ned S</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-1303</link>
		<dc:creator>Ned S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-1303</guid>
		<description>Greg - It concerns me that the Australian government never seems to consider the possibility that it won&#039;t have the money to bail people out if they get into trouble. (Which is what all welfare really is.)

Looking at America&#039;s current difficulties should be a wakeup call to even the most ignorant. If it was only America, one could say Oh but they are different. But they aren&#039;t that different - Lots of the developed economies seem to be facing pretty big issues going forward.

Queensland - Our third biggest &quot;export&quot; is Education. I&#039;d like to think the second one was agriculture. But strongly suspect it is &quot;cuddle a koala&quot; while throwing another &quot;shrimp on the barbie&quot;?

Education is an interesting one - I&#039;ve got a sneaky suspicion that a huge amount of it is not that Aussie unis teach anything all that clever, but just that when the kid has their Aussie degree, they&#039;ve cracked a passport to the West.

My concern is that we won&#039;t change in the things where we&#039;d be wise to. And where we do change, it will be change in the wrong direction.

Wonder why the Tamiflu scripts I bought in Oz were made in Switzerland and not here???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg &#8211; It concerns me that the Australian government never seems to consider the possibility that it won&#8217;t have the money to bail people out if they get into trouble. (Which is what all welfare really is.)</p>
<p>Looking at America&#8217;s current difficulties should be a wakeup call to even the most ignorant. If it was only America, one could say Oh but they are different. But they aren&#8217;t that different &#8211; Lots of the developed economies seem to be facing pretty big issues going forward.</p>
<p>Queensland &#8211; Our third biggest &#8220;export&#8221; is Education. I&#8217;d like to think the second one was agriculture. But strongly suspect it is &#8220;cuddle a koala&#8221; while throwing another &#8220;shrimp on the barbie&#8221;?</p>
<p>Education is an interesting one &#8211; I&#8217;ve got a sneaky suspicion that a huge amount of it is not that Aussie unis teach anything all that clever, but just that when the kid has their Aussie degree, they&#8217;ve cracked a passport to the West.</p>
<p>My concern is that we won&#8217;t change in the things where we&#8217;d be wise to. And where we do change, it will be change in the wrong direction.</p>
<p>Wonder why the Tamiflu scripts I bought in Oz were made in Switzerland and not here???</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Atkinson</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-1302</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Atkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-1302</guid>
		<description>Ned S, Senator - I think Australia has not been made to really dig deep (not mining pun intended) for a long time and as a result the nation has become somewhat lazy. We have dogged the last couple of major economic upheavals not simply because our economy was in good shape, but largely because of luck. If we had a well developed manufacturing export industry now we would be feeling the pain, but as it is our manufacturing sector has been in decline for 20 years and our biggest exports are commodities and education. (i.e. foreign students in Oz)

This means that Australian&#039;s are starting to think there will always be money around and that the government will be ready to bail them out if they get into trouble. In addition it starts to become less attractive for people to put in the big hours because the higher incomes brackets are clearly going to bear much of the burden caused by governments need for funds to pay down debt.

It is going to be interesting to see how much the nation will change over the next few years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ned S, Senator &#8211; I think Australia has not been made to really dig deep (not mining pun intended) for a long time and as a result the nation has become somewhat lazy. We have dogged the last couple of major economic upheavals not simply because our economy was in good shape, but largely because of luck. If we had a well developed manufacturing export industry now we would be feeling the pain, but as it is our manufacturing sector has been in decline for 20 years and our biggest exports are commodities and education. (i.e. foreign students in Oz)</p>
<p>This means that Australian&#8217;s are starting to think there will always be money around and that the government will be ready to bail them out if they get into trouble. In addition it starts to become less attractive for people to put in the big hours because the higher incomes brackets are clearly going to bear much of the burden caused by governments need for funds to pay down debt.</p>
<p>It is going to be interesting to see how much the nation will change over the next few years.</p>
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		<title>By: Ned S</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-1297</link>
		<dc:creator>Ned S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-1297</guid>
		<description>John Howard got that right Senator. The practice in Oz just doesn&#039;t bear any resemblance to the theory. Typical developed country I guess? (And one that is probably even more fortunate and priviliged than most.)

Disincentives to work - Plenty of them - Self funded retirement is at best an unrealistic dream for most. And once one realises that, the whole focus changes to thinking in terms of what is the maximum amount that government will let me have (and in what types of asset classes [including super with its own special government determined risks and rewards]) and still get a part pension for the perks.

Especially given that we all really know just how many Aussies coast along doing comparatively little - And/or spivving the system in one way or another. Why should I work and pay high tax to support all the others who don&#039;t, becomes the mindset.

Ken Henry has a little problem there with his tax review - On one hand I suspect he could be a socialist at heart? But on the other, he is clever enough to know that you don&#039;t get many tax dollars back from welfare recipients.

This one is old (7 august 2008) but interesting. Especially given that Oz companies just mightn&#039;t be doing so well anymore. Amongst other things it says:

&quot;Treasury&#039;s review of the Australian tax system shows there is little scope for lowering personal income tax, as the nation&#039;s total tax on wages is already well below the average of OECD industrialised countries. 

But it says taxes on &quot;investment capital&quot; - including company tax, capital gains and property taxes - are the highest in the world.&quot;

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24140111-601,00.html

Always a pleasure to talk - Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Howard got that right Senator. The practice in Oz just doesn&#8217;t bear any resemblance to the theory. Typical developed country I guess? (And one that is probably even more fortunate and priviliged than most.)</p>
<p>Disincentives to work &#8211; Plenty of them &#8211; Self funded retirement is at best an unrealistic dream for most. And once one realises that, the whole focus changes to thinking in terms of what is the maximum amount that government will let me have (and in what types of asset classes [including super with its own special government determined risks and rewards]) and still get a part pension for the perks.</p>
<p>Especially given that we all really know just how many Aussies coast along doing comparatively little &#8211; And/or spivving the system in one way or another. Why should I work and pay high tax to support all the others who don&#8217;t, becomes the mindset.</p>
<p>Ken Henry has a little problem there with his tax review &#8211; On one hand I suspect he could be a socialist at heart? But on the other, he is clever enough to know that you don&#8217;t get many tax dollars back from welfare recipients.</p>
<p>This one is old (7 august 2008) but interesting. Especially given that Oz companies just mightn&#8217;t be doing so well anymore. Amongst other things it says:</p>
<p>&#8220;Treasury&#8217;s review of the Australian tax system shows there is little scope for lowering personal income tax, as the nation&#8217;s total tax on wages is already well below the average of OECD industrialised countries. </p>
<p>But it says taxes on &#8220;investment capital&#8221; &#8211; including company tax, capital gains and property taxes &#8211; are the highest in the world.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24140111-601,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24140111-601,00.html</a></p>
<p>Always a pleasure to talk &#8211; Cheers!</p>
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		<title>By: Senator13</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-1294</link>
		<dc:creator>Senator13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-1294</guid>
		<description>Family is very important I agree.  John Howard use to say that family is the best social security there is.  I strongly agree with this statement.  Anything that a government can do to get out of the way and let a family prosper has to be a good thing and should always be encouraged.  Anything that detracts from this with a ‘government knows best’ mentality is always trouble in my eyes.  Taxing a family home, coming down on families that provide for them self and self-funded retirees should always be given support to the extent that they should never be slugged with higher taxes just because they work hard and are smart with their earnings all because they are “capable” of affording it.  The last thing we need is any more disincentives to work in this country.  

With almost wall to wall Labor Governments we are heading down a more socialist path.  It is a bad day when a generation expect the government to just hand them everything and begrudge anybody that has worked hard to achieve their own goals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Family is very important I agree.  John Howard use to say that family is the best social security there is.  I strongly agree with this statement.  Anything that a government can do to get out of the way and let a family prosper has to be a good thing and should always be encouraged.  Anything that detracts from this with a ‘government knows best’ mentality is always trouble in my eyes.  Taxing a family home, coming down on families that provide for them self and self-funded retirees should always be given support to the extent that they should never be slugged with higher taxes just because they work hard and are smart with their earnings all because they are “capable” of affording it.  The last thing we need is any more disincentives to work in this country.  </p>
<p>With almost wall to wall Labor Governments we are heading down a more socialist path.  It is a bad day when a generation expect the government to just hand them everything and begrudge anybody that has worked hard to achieve their own goals.</p>
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		<title>By: Ned S</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-1293</link>
		<dc:creator>Ned S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 04:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-1293</guid>
		<description>No wonder the Greek city states were always at each others throats! (Perhaps not.) But Yes, one would need to be pretty hard up for a job to become an Australian politician.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No wonder the Greek city states were always at each others throats! (Perhaps not.) But Yes, one would need to be pretty hard up for a job to become an Australian politician.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Atkinson</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-1292</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Atkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-1292</guid>
		<description>Ned S - I reckon actually things could get very complicated and factions within parties may even target people on their own side  so their faction gained an upper hand. In Ancient Greece the vote was taken via means of a secret ballot and so that allowed people to knife rivals in the back, so in Oz the outcome would probably be very surprising.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ned S &#8211; I reckon actually things could get very complicated and factions within parties may even target people on their own side  so their faction gained an upper hand. In Ancient Greece the vote was taken via means of a secret ballot and so that allowed people to knife rivals in the back, so in Oz the outcome would probably be very surprising.</p>
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		<title>By: Ned S</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-1291</link>
		<dc:creator>Ned S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-1291</guid>
		<description>The ALP would use their numbers to vote out the opposition&#039;s most promising alternative potential leader I suspect Greg - Smile!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ALP would use their numbers to vote out the opposition&#8217;s most promising alternative potential leader I suspect Greg &#8211; Smile!</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Atkinson</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-1289</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Atkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-1289</guid>
		<description>Hi Ned S - I agree that our form of democracy needs to be looked at and I am a fan of reducing the number of politicians and raising their pay so that we get a higher standard of people running the nations. (as I mentioned back in this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/bring-back-the-toga-and-lose-the-house-of-representatives/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blog&lt;/a&gt;)

Actually the ancient Greeks had a system where you could vote someone out of office and that must have made things interesting. In our terms this would mean that the MP&#039;s/Senators could vote one person out of office every year..I wonder who would be given the chop this year in Australia if we had such a system?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ned S &#8211; I agree that our form of democracy needs to be looked at and I am a fan of reducing the number of politicians and raising their pay so that we get a higher standard of people running the nations. (as I mentioned back in this <a href="http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/bring-back-the-toga-and-lose-the-house-of-representatives/" rel="nofollow">blog</a>)</p>
<p>Actually the ancient Greeks had a system where you could vote someone out of office and that must have made things interesting. In our terms this would mean that the MP&#8217;s/Senators could vote one person out of office every year..I wonder who would be given the chop this year in Australia if we had such a system?</p>
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		<title>By: Ned S</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-1287</link>
		<dc:creator>Ned S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-1287</guid>
		<description>Senator - If I was Rudd I think I&#039;d be tempted to keep the Oz stimulus money in my pocket just in case this is a false recovery. I just don&#039;t get the feeling we are significant enough to make a difference globally.

I think of the old blokes the depression produced - Their generation was called &quot;The Builders&quot;. They were a rather different breed to what came after (in the West.) Which could probably be described as &quot;The Debt Based Consumers&quot;.

Maybe the &quot;new&quot; way really will continue to work long term? (Debt based consumption driving growth, with inflation to reduce the real debt over time.) And all we&#039;ve had is a nasty fright. But either way, I know the old way was not risky and the new model is.

I just wish I had a better alternative to democracy. I haven&#039;t read much of what the  American founding fathers had to say, but what little I have, indicates that some of them had some pretty strong reservations about it. I even get the impression that is why the right to bear arms was enshrined in their constitution? The theory being that if the mob ever voted in a bunch of drongos, they&#039;d be a bit reluctant to do anything too damaging as they knew there were lots of guns out there to keep them honest. Doesn&#039;t work nowadays of course - A bunch of enraged average Americans rising up with their hunting rifles are not going to fare too well against the tanks and what not of the military.

Family is an interesting concept to me. And people&#039;s roles in society generally. I&#039;ve had a reasonable amount of contact with a relatively primitive tribal society that had a large mining company as its &quot;guest&quot;. They wanted all the very good things that come with civilization of course. But there were certainly times when I asked myself if they had any concept of just what they were likely to lose as a result of getting those things.

Not that there is an alternative for us in the West now. We&#039;ve been on a one way track pretty much since the industrial revolution I guess. But I see the downsides to our ways more than some I guess. And have seen benefits to other ways.

Including a society (Russia) that seemed more middle of the road in being partially developed while still appearing to retain ties to their agricultural roots. And a stronger sense of family than we&#039;ve got in the West - Albeit from necessity since the USSR collapsed perhaps? (Wikipedia says &quot;With the emergence of Proto-industrialisation and early capitalism, the nuclear family became a financially viable social unit.&quot;)

I look at democracy and I know it has significant problems inherent in it. And I also know that it is not a system that has truly stood any real test of time. Women didn&#039;t get the vote until around the 1920s. And there have obviously been other systems that have been around much longer than 90 years. Maybe democracy has a saving grace in that it copes better with change than other systems? I&#039;m honestly not sure.

But either way, I do think the advocates of democracy would do well to show a bit of caution. But &quot;Fools rush in where angels fear to tread&quot; as they say. And we sure do seem to have a habit of voting people into positions of power in the West who don&#039;t seem to entertain many self doubts. And who really are just working on a whole bunch of theory (including an economic one right now). I think it&#039;s a concern.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Senator &#8211; If I was Rudd I think I&#8217;d be tempted to keep the Oz stimulus money in my pocket just in case this is a false recovery. I just don&#8217;t get the feeling we are significant enough to make a difference globally.</p>
<p>I think of the old blokes the depression produced &#8211; Their generation was called &#8220;The Builders&#8221;. They were a rather different breed to what came after (in the West.) Which could probably be described as &#8220;The Debt Based Consumers&#8221;.</p>
<p>Maybe the &#8220;new&#8221; way really will continue to work long term? (Debt based consumption driving growth, with inflation to reduce the real debt over time.) And all we&#8217;ve had is a nasty fright. But either way, I know the old way was not risky and the new model is.</p>
<p>I just wish I had a better alternative to democracy. I haven&#8217;t read much of what the  American founding fathers had to say, but what little I have, indicates that some of them had some pretty strong reservations about it. I even get the impression that is why the right to bear arms was enshrined in their constitution? The theory being that if the mob ever voted in a bunch of drongos, they&#8217;d be a bit reluctant to do anything too damaging as they knew there were lots of guns out there to keep them honest. Doesn&#8217;t work nowadays of course &#8211; A bunch of enraged average Americans rising up with their hunting rifles are not going to fare too well against the tanks and what not of the military.</p>
<p>Family is an interesting concept to me. And people&#8217;s roles in society generally. I&#8217;ve had a reasonable amount of contact with a relatively primitive tribal society that had a large mining company as its &#8220;guest&#8221;. They wanted all the very good things that come with civilization of course. But there were certainly times when I asked myself if they had any concept of just what they were likely to lose as a result of getting those things.</p>
<p>Not that there is an alternative for us in the West now. We&#8217;ve been on a one way track pretty much since the industrial revolution I guess. But I see the downsides to our ways more than some I guess. And have seen benefits to other ways.</p>
<p>Including a society (Russia) that seemed more middle of the road in being partially developed while still appearing to retain ties to their agricultural roots. And a stronger sense of family than we&#8217;ve got in the West &#8211; Albeit from necessity since the USSR collapsed perhaps? (Wikipedia says &#8220;With the emergence of Proto-industrialisation and early capitalism, the nuclear family became a financially viable social unit.&#8221;)</p>
<p>I look at democracy and I know it has significant problems inherent in it. And I also know that it is not a system that has truly stood any real test of time. Women didn&#8217;t get the vote until around the 1920s. And there have obviously been other systems that have been around much longer than 90 years. Maybe democracy has a saving grace in that it copes better with change than other systems? I&#8217;m honestly not sure.</p>
<p>But either way, I do think the advocates of democracy would do well to show a bit of caution. But &#8220;Fools rush in where angels fear to tread&#8221; as they say. And we sure do seem to have a habit of voting people into positions of power in the West who don&#8217;t seem to entertain many self doubts. And who really are just working on a whole bunch of theory (including an economic one right now). I think it&#8217;s a concern.</p>
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		<title>By: Senator13</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-1285</link>
		<dc:creator>Senator13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-1285</guid>
		<description>That is a great observation Ned.  I think the reason that well developed Western democracies do not seem to do a good job in solving this problem is because the solution would not be popular with the electorate. 

Who is going to vote for someone who is not going to give out any handouts?  
What is in it for me?  

These are just some of the questions that would go through the minds of many voters.  

No wonder Rudd is so popular.  Everybody gets a handout.  There has not really been much pain so to speak.  Glen Stevens just the other day said that this could very well be one of the mildest downturns in recent history.

It takes a great deal of determination and convictions and not worrying about being popular to go against the grain of this sort of mentality.

We are not going to see that with this Government.  It is too easy for people to be just plain lazy and still get free money.  Why would they want to change the Government?  And the Government is not going to change its ways because in its eyes what it is doing is keeping it popular and will get it re-elected.  Why change a winning strategy?

Paradoxically, maybe if the financial crisis was more savage it could have broke the mould?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is a great observation Ned.  I think the reason that well developed Western democracies do not seem to do a good job in solving this problem is because the solution would not be popular with the electorate. </p>
<p>Who is going to vote for someone who is not going to give out any handouts?<br />
What is in it for me?  </p>
<p>These are just some of the questions that would go through the minds of many voters.  </p>
<p>No wonder Rudd is so popular.  Everybody gets a handout.  There has not really been much pain so to speak.  Glen Stevens just the other day said that this could very well be one of the mildest downturns in recent history.</p>
<p>It takes a great deal of determination and convictions and not worrying about being popular to go against the grain of this sort of mentality.</p>
<p>We are not going to see that with this Government.  It is too easy for people to be just plain lazy and still get free money.  Why would they want to change the Government?  And the Government is not going to change its ways because in its eyes what it is doing is keeping it popular and will get it re-elected.  Why change a winning strategy?</p>
<p>Paradoxically, maybe if the financial crisis was more savage it could have broke the mould?</p>
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		<title>By: Ned S</title>
		<link>http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/opinion/wasteful-spending-poor-planning-and-extreme-socialism/#comment-1284</link>
		<dc:creator>Ned S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 02:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shareswatch.com.au/blog/?p=357#comment-1284</guid>
		<description>Australia is a country that has strong socialist leanings. The indications are that these will become stronger over time. Building wealth to support oneself when they retire will not be seen as an especially good thing. (Rudd halved the maximum tax deductible voluntary contributions to super recently if I recall correctly?) Things like taking on debt and responsibly paying it off and contributing one&#039;s &quot;fair&quot; share of tax will be seen as good things.

There&#039;s lots of reasons for this. But a real big one is that in the absence of strong multi-generational and relatively broad based family structures, ultimate responsibility for people&#039;s welfare sits very firmly with government.

It&#039;s an old problem. Any society that &quot;progesses&quot; past tribalism and its family structures are not held together through such things as economic necessity and a widely accepted belief system that places significant emphathis on family will encounter it I suspect? At least when times get a bit tough.

But comparatively privledged and developed Western democracies do not seem to have done a very good job at all of coming up with a solution to the problem. In lots of ways, they actually seem to have exacerbated it perhaps?

And such a solution as they do have, which is to give money to government so that government can dole it out as they see fit probably isn&#039;t one that sits terribly naturally with human beings who tend to be biologically programmed to think in terms of the much more immediate me and mine. Certainly when times are a bit tough anyway.

So I&#039;ve got very strong reservations about seeing Western ambassadors galloping around the world singing the praises of the system to the less enlightened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Australia is a country that has strong socialist leanings. The indications are that these will become stronger over time. Building wealth to support oneself when they retire will not be seen as an especially good thing. (Rudd halved the maximum tax deductible voluntary contributions to super recently if I recall correctly?) Things like taking on debt and responsibly paying it off and contributing one&#8217;s &#8220;fair&#8221; share of tax will be seen as good things.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s lots of reasons for this. But a real big one is that in the absence of strong multi-generational and relatively broad based family structures, ultimate responsibility for people&#8217;s welfare sits very firmly with government.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s an old problem. Any society that &#8220;progesses&#8221; past tribalism and its family structures are not held together through such things as economic necessity and a widely accepted belief system that places significant emphathis on family will encounter it I suspect? At least when times get a bit tough.</p>
<p>But comparatively privledged and developed Western democracies do not seem to have done a very good job at all of coming up with a solution to the problem. In lots of ways, they actually seem to have exacerbated it perhaps?</p>
<p>And such a solution as they do have, which is to give money to government so that government can dole it out as they see fit probably isn&#8217;t one that sits terribly naturally with human beings who tend to be biologically programmed to think in terms of the much more immediate me and mine. Certainly when times are a bit tough anyway.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;ve got very strong reservations about seeing Western ambassadors galloping around the world singing the praises of the system to the less enlightened.</p>
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